Transfer Fee court case

Class Action lawsuit on behalf of 23,167 against the Recreation Centers of Sun City (RCSC) which could restrict or eliminate the ability for Terravita Country Club to charge a Capital Improvement Transfer Fee (which they call a Property Improvement Fee, or PIF):


Pre-trial conference begins November 6, 2017

This lawsuit covers many issues, most of them unique to Sun City.  The challenge to Transfer Fees is broader reaching.  The lawfirm arguing to protect the homeowners is Dessaulles.  Carpenter, Hazlewood, also TCA and TCC attorneys, is representing the HOA board.

No matter how this case is resolved, expect it to bring more attention to the use of transfer fees, which communities charge them and how much they are.

Vision for a Better Terravita

Vision for a Better Terravita

  • The Clubhouse remodel CAN be scaled back. There is no reason why the current contractors cannot be retained on a more economical scope.  If possible, it makes perfect sense to go with those who have a working knowledge of the project and clubhouse building.
  • If a loan is still needed, drawing a smaller amount with a shorter payback on the current loan would be weighed against all other options. The community would be asked. The board has identified no known “significant” costs associated with a reduction in scope.
  • As a result of the hurricanes in Florida and Texas, and the fires in California, local contractors have reported skilled labor and materials shortages. A new board will review the impact with our contractors and consider their recommendations on the effect of the costs and timelines to go forward.
  • Committees would be selected by soliciting from the community at large. Let’s get away from the current practice of a single director choosing who is on the committees they lead.  The recent call to all members to serve on the Fitness Committee received a tremendous response, proof that people want to serve.  Our multi-talented community should not have a Finance Committee of all golf members.
  • A new Governance Committee would be set up immediately to review and recommend changes to the bylaws, subject to the required all member vote.
  • A new Communications Committee would be considered to revamp how to better communicate with tech savvy younger members while meeting the needs of those less techy. There would be a special focus on the 40% or so who don’t live here year round.
  • Every club and group would be offered a facilities use agreement for guests with the same terms enjoyed under the $1 per year agreement by guests of Terravita Golf and Non-Resident Golf Members.

Terravita can have a future which recognizes the variety in our membership and their diverse interests.  It cannot happen without changing this board.  Vote to recall each director listed on the ballot.

Vote to Recall

  • In late 2015 the Terravita Country Club Board advised the members the Clubhouse remodel would cost between $2,000,000 and $3,000,000. The projected costs appeared to be reasonable and acceptable by the membership.
  • In December 2016, the Board quoted a $4,000,000 cost with NO BORROWING.
  • On March 15, 2017, the Board agreed to a Rate Lock Agreement at a cost of $169,000 for a $5,000,000, 20-year loan with Chase Bank. Repayment of the loan would be funded with a home sales transfer fee of $3,000 per home on 70 sales per year, totaling $210,000.  (The legality of this transfer fee is currently being challenged in the Arizona Courts, plus questions are being asked about the legal application to Terravita property sales.)
  • On April 25, 2017, the $5,000,000 loan agreement was signed by the Board President and Treasurer at an emergency meeting.
  • On May 16, 2017, the Board announced a preliminary project cost of $5,647,000 being funded with the Chase Bank loan, and draws on the Terravita Country Club Reserve Accounts.
  • Unlike the Terravita Community Association’s remodel of our entry gate, which included very informative mail-outs and a request for the home owners’ vote, the Terravita Country Club clubhouse remodel project was very poorly communicated. The current and previous Boards pushed this project through as fast as they could, without adequate membership communication or approval.
  • “Street” talk, pool conversations, gym conversations, tennis court conversations, parking lot conversations and more caused the creation of the Terravita Ninety Percent.  Terravita Ninety Percent was designed as a communication tool to ask and answer questions about the project.  The goal was to move conversations to the official meetings and it did.
  • The initial Terravita Ninety Percent mailing was June 2, 2017. After receiving close to 300 responses, the TNP provided the Board with the list of responders and asked the current TCC Board of Directors for a special meeting to discuss the project.  The Board informed the group they could have a special meeting, but the Board would not attend.  One side note, in the October 3, 2017 Board of Directors Message, the Board quote, “This is a group of Terravita residents that insists on remaining anonymous.”  The TNP has provided the Board with the list of residents.  Ultimately 415 confirmed residents signed this social media petition.
  • If you have attended any of the last six Board meetings, you have witnessed the objections of the majority on this project. The Board continues to ignore all members’ requests. In response, TCC Recall was formed to pursue the best and only path forward, to Remove / Recall of 6 of the current 7 Board members.
  • On October 16th, a group of members delivered 227 Remove / Recall petitions to Mr. Laaveg and Mr. Forbes. At the delivery, Mr. Ted Green informed Mr. Laaveg that a group would like to sit down and discuss the project before going forward with the Remove / Recall.  Laaveg responded “NO”, and further, “This is going to be a battle”.
  • We believe the Clubhouse needs updating. However, the scope, price and debt tied to the current plan is of concern. The Board has openly discussed that future Boards may choose to raise dues and transfer fees or assess.  We believe the 20 year debt encumbrance is a serious threat to the future of the Terravita and its ability to remain a Private Community.
  • There have been persistent rumors that Bill Brown is behind our recall efforts. While Mr. Brown is certainly entitled to his own viewpoints and communications, we can categorically state that he has played NO role whatsoever in guiding, funding, or communication on behalf of the Terravita Ninety Percent or TCC Recall.  Any claims to the contrary is UNTRUE.
  • Last, within the next few days you will be receiving a ballot from the Terravita Country Club. It is, of course, our opinion that THE CURRENT BOARD SHOULD BE REMOVED to allow us to install a Board that will review the project, have a much better line of communication with the members, bring the cost to a more reasonable and affordable level, and look at all funding options.  Your support is certainly appreciated.

Special thanks to the hundreds of residents who signed both the on-line petition and the mailed-in recall petition, as well as those who donated time, money or both.

Return on Investment

Some things are easy to explain.

From the July 26 TCC General Manager’s letter:

“TCC’s full fiscal year (vs. a partial year) 2019/2020 Food and Beverage Department Pro Forma shows a 20% increase ($180,000) in revenues due to the redesign of the grille room and dining room, the ability to have larger functions, simultaneous functions along with regular dining, and a greater casual dining and bar business. We will see revenue increases in regular dining, functions and special events based on the new flexible design. The Net Income (bottom line) financial effect of this increased revenue vs. the related expense increases will be an improvement of approximately $30,000.We feel this is actually a conservative revenue estimate based on all the added features and new flexible design of the clubhouse and we could actually see more of an improvement to the bottom line.”

$7,267,000 for $30,000 per year improvement.

If you were investing, would you buy stock in this corporation?

One nearby community which claims to have increased their revenues by 30% is Desert Highlands. Desert Highlands is the only club within 100 miles which is a combination HOA/Country Club/Golf Club as a single corporation. When you buy a home in Desert Highlands, you get the whole package including one Board, one management organization, one dues payment, a restaurant minimum and one set of rules. Homes are luxury and custom built. They have an outstanding process for major projects. It includes lots of member involvement in every aspect including financing. Their clubhouse remodel started with estimates of $10-12 million. With direct community involvement, Desert Highlands Clubhouse Restoration Case Study-FINAL – 01-10-2014it was whittled down to $4 million. Members VOTED with 88% approving! Members agreed to an assessment with multiple payment options. The project was so well managed the members received a rebate on their assessment of $840 per household. Who wouldn’t like that!

Desert Highlands had a successful Clubhouse Remodel and increased revenues by 30% because they had community buy-in and a vote, not because they had the right kind of bar stools or fire pits.

Desert Highlands was named one of 5 Distinguished Clubs in Arizona by Boardroom Magazine.

You can read a Case Study on the Desert Highlands project by following these links or on

Letter from a member

Terravita Country Club Members:

I urge you to sign the “Petition to Remove 6 of 7 Terravita Country Club Board Officers,” (if you haven’t done so already), so we can have a Special Meeting to vote on their removal.  This includes the recently appointed Board member.

This is necessary because the Board entered into a 5 million dollar 20-year loan with Chase Bank in April to remodel the Clubhouse.  The Board has never borrowed money to pay for such an extensive capital improvement over such a long period of time which is fiscally irresponsible, and unnecessary.  The loan creates a lien on all of the property of the Country Club including its bank accounts.  If the loan is paid off before 20 years, there is a prepayment penalty.

There are no provisions in the governing documents of Terravita, including its bylaws or Membership Plan, which allows the Board to borrow this money.  There is a provision in the Membership Plan, however, which allows an assessment of the members to pay for capital improvements, but this requires a vote of the community to approve such an assessment.  The Board rejected any assessment because it knew the members would not approve spending 5 million dollars for this project.  The Board has also refused to have a vote on this loan because it knew the members would also not approve borrowing 5 million dollars for the project.  The special Board meetings held in June and July of this year regarding this project (the largest turn out ever of members at board meetings), showed that a substantial number of members do not approve of this project, and also want a community vote on the project.  The Board arrogantly turned them down.

Therefore, it has become necessary to call for the removal of six board members so that the size, scope, and cost of any remodeling project can be reconsidered and reduced, to allow the community to vote on a revised remodeling project, and how that might be financed including through a vote for an assessment of members.  For example, an assessment of the members of $500 each year for 2 years would raise almost 1.4 million dollars, and would probably be approved.  That money plus 1 million dollars from the capital reserve and improvement funds would total about 2.5 million dollars, more than enough money to pay for a respectable remodeling project.  And we wouldn’t have to pay anywhere from 2 to almost 3 million dollars in interest over 20 years, depending on the amount of cost overruns and ultimate amount borrowed which will probably be 5 million dollars.

There has not been any threat of litigation by community residents to my knowledge, especially not by the members who are part of the “Terravita Ninety Percent” opposed to this project calling for the removal of board members through a special meeting.  The removal of Board members to allow reconsideration of this project and a vote by the members, is the fastest, easiest, least costly and time-consuming method of solving this problem, rather than litigation which would be expensive for members and result in assessments for attorney’s fees.

“Terravita Ninety Percent” is also not an “anonymous” group of members, as stated by the President of the Board in his letter to members of October 3, 2017.  At the meeting of the Board in June regarding this project, two members of Terravita stood up and identified themselves as part of “Terravita Ninety Percent.”  “Terravita Ninety Percent” created the website wherein hundreds of members of Terravita were allowed over this summer to express the reasons why they disapprove of this project for many valid different reasons, and it became apparent, that a substantial number of the members are opposed to the scope of this project, the amount of the bank loan, and especially not being allowed to vote on the project.  With a new Board we can reconsider and reduce the scope of the project and its costs, and consider alternative financing methods, such as an assessment, and allow the members to vote to approve or disapprove of the reconsidered project.

The President of the Board in his recent letter threatened to use their attorneys “at significant cost” “to coordinate the process” of removing the board members.  I don’t know what this is supposed to mean.  There should not be any “significant” legal expense involved in this removal process, and this is not a valid reason to not sign the Petition.  The process of removal is a preferred way of quickly resolving this issue at hardly any legal expense and without any litigation.

The fairest way of resolving this issue is therefore to remove the six members of the current Board, and with a newly elected Board, downsize the scope and cost of the project, and allow the members to vote on this project.  Please sign the Petition if you haven’t done so yet, and then attend the Special Meeting and vote to remove the six Board members.


John Ryley

Every letter which was sent by TerravitaNinetyPercent

Here is every letter sent out by TerravitaNinetyPercent.  We are happy to correct anything specifically found to be wrong.


Preparation for June 26 Meeting

2017-07-07 Golf letter [Terravitaninetypercent]

Golf letter July 7

2017-06-30 [Terravitaninetypercent] Disclosure Rules affect You

2017-06-27 [Terravitaninetypercent] June 26 Board Meeting follow up

2017-06-26 [Terravitaninetypercent] last minute

2017-06-25 [Terravitaninetypercent] Board Meeting is just hours away

READ THIS 2017-06-17 [Terravitaninetypercent]


2017-06-17 [Terravitaninetypercent] Petition Update, June 16, 2017

2017-06-09 [Terravitaninetypercent] We’ve formally requested a Special Meeting

2017-06-04 [Terravitaninetypercent] Petition update

Phoenix, Arizona_ home sales below par in golf-course communities – Financial Times

2017-06-03 [Terravitaninetypercent] Terravita, important information

A recall Petition is not a lawsuit

Some questions have come up about the Petition to Remove / Recall SIX of the Terravita Country Club Board of Directors.

A recall Petition is not a lawsuit.  No court is involved.  The Petition is the first step in a process in which will require the Board to send out ballots and call a Special Meeting for members to vote on the recall.  Absentee ballots, as well as those collected in the Special Meeting are counted.  The decision is by simple majority as long as a quorum is reached.

An attorney was consulted on how to conduct the Petition because Terravita Country Club’s bylaws are not in alignment with State Law ARS 33-1813.  For example, the quorum, which is the minimum number of total votes to validate the process, is 20% by Statute, not the 1/3 in Bylaws Article III, Section 5.  The quorum for TCC is 276.  If, for example, 600 votes are cast (so, more than 276), 301 votes would decide.  Again, your signature on the Petition doesn’t recall the board members, it starts the process.

A recall is not unusual.  Just last month, Legend Trail recalled a board member using this same process of collecting petition signatures, having a special meeting and a community vote.  A removal of officers allows a community, like ours, to pause and rethink the best way to go forward.

We have heard, some Terravita Country Club members agree with the recall, but do not want to get involved or fear reprisal and therefore will not sign the petition.  Our opinion is you need to get involved now before it is too late to rethink this project.  If you signed the social media petition, your name is already known to the Board members and we assume, the management staff.  Golfers, tennis players and former Board members are supporting this petition.

In the September 25th the Board of Directors, again, presented the Clubhouse redesign estimated costs (the same as presented in August).  The total $5,200,000 cost is to be funded by $750,000 from the Capital Reserve account, $750,000 from the Capital Improvement account, and $3,7000,000 from the 20 year Chase Bank loan.  In the meeting, when asked by two members what the Interest cost would be, the Director of Finance said it couldn’t be calculated because he didn’t know how much the loan would be or how long it would take to pay it off. (Note …. You can get a copy of the video of the September 25th meeting on CD from the TCC office.)

For the record, the interest on $3,700,000 is $2,067,000 (If we have cost overruns and have to borrow the total $5,000,000, total interest cost will be $2,787,000).

Capital Reserve                   $750,000
Capital Improvement        $750,000
20 year loan                      $3,700,000
Interest on loan                $2,067,000
Total cost of remodel    $7,267,000

Please consider, at an estimated cost of $7,267,000 this Clubhouse redesign is the LARGEST, MOST EXPENSIVE PROJECT OUR CLUB HAS EVER UNDERTAKEN.  Please remember that Terravita Country Club’s record for managing projects has been poor.  The budget for the Desert Pavilion was $920,000, the final cost was $1,321,000.  The Buffalo Chip took 11 months to rebuild from the ground up after a fire.  Desert Pavilion took 18 months.

Please sign the Petition to Remove / Recall.  Let’s start the process toward a better managed, fiscally responsible Country Club.

Read what your neighbors say

Here are all of the previous comments from your friends and neighbors from the TerravitaNinetyPercent on-line petition:

We need a meeting to be heard
We need to vote on this decision
Expense seems extremely excessive
Too expensive
Too expendise and not necessary
To many special assessments
The picture of the renovation showed a long table with high chairs. High chairs are not a good idea along with a long table. The whole plan did not reflect the needs of this community.
We should not incur more debt without a majority of homeowner commitment.
Too expensive. Don’t like design. should have several design ideas to vote on by the community and absolutely should be multiple price bids!!!!
We think the clubhouse can be updated nicely with new carpet, furniture and fixtures, but do not want the community to be in such a financial bind and a burden to the homeowners.
This is crazy and is obviously controlled
by non resident golf members.  Can board members be removed from office
I am a Terravita resident.
A facelift to stay updated would be nice , but not millions of dollars . Huge burden for the homeowners!
I just moved into the neighborhood. I don’t recall being told about this loan prior to completing the sale. Regardless, I thought the clubhouse looked fine. It’s appearance was not part of my decision to buy.
I am Terravita resident and support the petition background comments.
I most strongly object to being oblicated to a large debt against my wishes and to which I did not agree when purchasing my home in Terravita.
Its way too expensive when it can be done for much less.  Actually it is beautiful as is so why do so much extensive renovating.  Not good for all of us to endure a high cost loan especially when most of us are just social members. Adding that we dont know what the future brings.
social dues and assessment dues keep going up
This has nothing to do with selling homes in Terravita.  Too much money to justify this.  Maybe residents will consider moving because of this expenditure.  Think before you sign this ridiculous request.  Next we will see our HOA triple.  Another BAD expense just like the solar.
The thought of borrowing money to renovate the clubhouse scares me to death.  It will damage the value of our homes because of this debt.
a poor use of terra vita’s money.
im opposed to the length ( 22 Years ) to pay this loan off. How would this not effect future home sales.
Doing unnecessary spending without regard for all members.
i would like to fully understand how the community is going to pay for this expense and how it will impact monthly or one time out of pocket costs
Agree need for update but proposed$5 million price tag is too high. Too much debt has ruined too many clubs in the past.
I am a Terravita resident and agree that the clubhouse needs updating, but also feel that this amount of debt could ruin this community. Homeowners should have more of a say in this project and its cost as we are ultimately financing it.
Seems to us it is way over the amount that is necessary to spend. Borrowing to do so is extravagant. We have many fabulous restaurants to go to within 30 minutes of us. I always say going out is a waste of time- money and calories if you have a mediocre meal. The dining experience currently is below mediocre and spending millions will not change that.
Yes, the clubhouse needs a facelift but the cost is out of line and a 20 year loan does not serve the interests of Terrvita homeowners.
Too large a debt for this community
This is a very large debt for this community and I don’t think it’s warranted.  I agree it could be updated in a few years but not to that extent.
I agree with the petition. Its so costly and too elaborate
This a board once again running wild with other peoples money and future on the line. You can add this to the list of all the other ill thought out board driven schemes. Don’t forget the $360,000 solar panel fiasco. Ralph Biamco was correct in his lawsuit that attempted to rein in overly aggressive spending crazed boards. He was vilified but he was right. The lawsuit was based exactly on this premise, Residents MUST have a say and a vote in these kind  of expenditures. The board settled that case after his death and reimbursed all legal costs to participants. I agree the club house needs a facelift. But this size of expenditure is beyond excessive and with TomForbes as overseer is guaranteed to run  amok as did all other improvements. The board OWES residents an open discussion and an up or down vote while and Not during the summer but when all residents are on property.
Aren’t we living beyond our means–involving future potential homeowners to continue paying off this “face-lift” that will be out-of date before the loan is fully paid off?  And, why isn’t a local bank being used for the funding?  .
This is totally unnecessary and way too costly.  Members should have the right to vote on this as it will indebt the members for the next 20 years, increase dues, deplete reserves, and most probably result in assessments.  Remember the “solar walkway” disaster. Members would vote against this and they should have a vote.  The clubhouse is fine as it is or just spend a little money for necessary improvements periodically.
The Board was totally wrong in giving an open checkbook to the planning of this project. A budget should be set first not after the fact. There should have been what if we spent $1mil, $2mil, $3mil etc. The intent is to build restaurant traffic and revenue. Perhaps the Golf Club members should be required to spend a minimum in the dining room monthly like most clubs. They are now getting a free ride with all TCC members/residents paying the F&B shortfall every year to the tune of $400,000 and more in deficit.
The board and management has demonstrated its inability to manage a project of this size. Just look at the pavilion fiasco. What will the homeowners do in ten years when updates are required and they are still paying for what they tear out.
Much too costly and ambitious for our community.
I would like a warm welcoming clubhouse with several tables for 4 or 6. I would like the bar and it’s blabbering tvs hidden away.
live  here
1. Totally unnessary 2.Way too expensive  3. A project of this magnitude should definitely be put up for a community vote!! Incurring all this debt is financially irresponsible !
Any remodel to the clubhouse should include moving the cart barn (and preferably all golf facilities) to a separate electrical meter.  The $1 ninetynine year lease to golf does not preclude them paying their own electric bill.  For 20 years CC members have been paying to charge the carts for golf guests (revenues to golf) yet somehow guests of the bridge players have been getting a “free ride” and now need to pay $6.
I agree with all the comments.  A facelift for the clubhouse is needed but not a major renovation.
Most of our residents are senior citizens and to put them in debt for the next 20 years makes no sense.
It is too elaborate a renovation for a restaurant that loses money even year.
Too expensive and who is going to manage the contractors and maintain the budget.
Too expensive. Too much debt.
I don’t like the expenses. Not enough information is being shared about the plans. The community is thriving and after all of the time we had to wait for the renovation of the D.P, can’t we just enjoy it and save some money?
High debt is not good – need to contain costs – do a facelift, but the clubhouse is very beautiful as it is.  I actually bought recently because of how it looks now – it doesn’t need much.
Can’t afford to pay more in expenses.  I am fully retired with a fixed monthly income.
Outrageous spending without approval of those who will be responsible for paying for this overblown dream of a few.
I do object to long term debt for unnecessary remodels.  I would like to know what the realtors have to say about the sale of houses and if the club house design is a major concern.  I would also like to know how long houses in Terravita are staying on the market and why those with extended listings are not selling.  I see houses with sale signs all the time, but I also know new people continue to move in with as much frequency.  How about Stats on that?
We would not even use this club. Not needed by most of us in this community.
This renovation is too expensive & elaborite.  The proposed bar area with the high tables & chairs does not take into consideration the fact that the majority of our residents are senior citizens.
Too expensive, too elaborate. We need a community vote on this. Reminds me of the Solar Panel boondoggle.
I am not convinced that a major renovation is necessary at this time. The bar/multiple TVs should not be the the first impression on entering the club.
The HOA are already too high.   The committee members should be looking at ways to lower costs.
It is important because I cannot defend borrowing money for this project.  I would like to see the clubhouse updated, but the current plan is
fiscally irresponsible.
Too much money to spend on renovation.
Hell NO!
It is not necessary for all this remodeling.
I cannot justify approving this expansion/renovation when we were given zero opportunity to review something of this magnitude that could have long term implications. The community must be more involved in these decisions.
This way to expensive a renovation and I do not support a large debt.
The expense of a new clubhouse is far more then expensive then the other clubhouses in the area. They are up to date and less expensive then the proposed amount. How many bids did Terravita obtain?  Were they reviewed by the Terravita residents? It appears that every time a committee determines that a new face lift is needed the residents get a another hike on dues.  When is this going to end?  The dues have gone up 3-4 x since I moved here in 2010. Why can’t you budget accordingly.. I have too!!!!!!!!
Fiscally irresponsible…like the community center.  I strongly oppose this!
Commitment without consent … sounds a little like taxation without representation.
This is insane!
The fact that this loan was agreed to WITHOUT the consensus of the community and the outrageous cost of this extensive and unnecessary renovation as well as the long term debt associated with it will certainly damage the value of our homes.
This is not the first time the “powers that be” here at Terravita have been deceitful with its members.
(Remember the solar boondoggle?)
It’s high time Terravita began listening to the community members as a whole!
Think amount is too high. ROI if any will take decades to recoupe.
$5M is a ridiculous amount for a club our size to borrow and it will be another impediment to selling houses.  Redecorating is all that is needed. If we want some modernizing allow the homeowners up update the exterior of their homes so we would no longer be called “The Barracks” in the community.  The more we look like a custom home neighborhood, the better home sales will be.
What happened to fiduciary responsibility?
It seems like we just redid the dining area with refurbishing chairs, etc.  I do believe the facilities part of the building probably do need some help but does the board constantly look towards spending exorbitant sums of money for every project???
Having debt will be a detriment to selling homes here, whereas having a remodeled clubhouse may be moot — An update would be nice, but not as extensive as per the plans.
We need to manage  our debt and maintain a low debt to equity ratio for long term stability and better market value for our homes. High debt discourages resale and home values in a community such as ours.
It is fiscally irresponsible for this community to take on $5M in debt to support a clubhouse and sport that has declining interest.  All details of any investment; carrying costs of indebtedness; ongoing maintenance; etc.  needs to be fully transparent and put to a vote of the entire community; not decided by a few board members.
Unnecessarily extravagant!  Way too costly.  An association with so much debt is a deterrent to prospective buyers.  If you can’t do a very nice facelift for a couple hundred thousand, do nothing and accumulate the funds for a reasonable remodel in a few years.
The magnitude  of the price tag is outrageous!
HOA spend money because they can, but it not just the boards money nor should it be there decision without voting input from the membership! Signing on to this DEBT is  going to be so long term, committing membership now and into the far future that it will be in fact will be a negative for home sales, not a positive! I know that for myself if I were to consider buying into a country club with that kind of long term debt, that would stop me!!!?
I know what realtors say a beautiful magnificent expensive club house with it’s amenities makes sales improve and easier? But does it really? It’s niece to have but to be responsible for the amount of debt as a member isn’t a good sales point!!
I urge the membership and the board to reconsider this plan and expense and realisticly make a sound financial decision not what the board is pushing at this time!
the purpose of creating a budget is not to exceed the amount availbale to spend.  keeping the clubhouse “up to date” is important, but not to the extent it puts Terravita in a large debt situation.  Recently in chicago, a major private club borrowed heavily to remodel the golf course and closed, unable to meet debt commitments.  No way what began as a $5 million remodel should exceed that amount.  you go back and infd ways to stay within budget.
I feel that the club house can be renovated at substantially less than what is budgeted.  I do not want to see Terravite go into debt for an upgrade to a facility that is quite nice already.
Within the last couple of years, our monthly fees have gone from $170, to $180, to $190. Likewise, our quarterly dues have gone from $170, to $300 and now $309. “Who’s watching the store.” We need to be more fiscally responsible. When we did the gatehouse  renovation, we sent out flyers, e-mails, pictures, etc. and then voted on the gatehouse renovation. This is a much bigger project, with no vote from the residents. Shame on somebody
Enough already with the added expenses. The clubhouse was redecorated a few years ago. All the venues have now been updated. Leave well enough alone!
To put more debt on the membership is Absurd!
Too expensive . This debt will be extra burden on all members and negative on property values.
There is no reason for the remodel to be this extensive, much less expensive. As a resident there should be a vote as to what should be done , not just a handful that want to go to this expense.  There seems to be a select few that want something and they usually get it.
1. Large long term debt will decrease Terravita property values for years to come. Potential buyers will be reluctant if faced with heavy debt.
2. $5 million is double what is currently in reserves. Unbudgeted renovations such as this creates a huge black mark for our community.
3. This will necessitate higher assessments or special assessments. Another black mark on our community.
4. How much is in reserves for the clubhouse remodel? That is the amount the project should be limited to.
5. Is the wholesale renovation truly necessary? Or can the necessary upgrades be made at a lower cost?
6. The clubhouse is for the community, not to compete with public courses.
Updating is probably necessary.  The proposed scope is excessive and we know from experience the over runs will be significant.
Unnecessary to have this vast remodel. We did quite a bit of work just a few tears ago. We also added the patio awnings. A lot of folks are on fixed incomes. If we are using all of our reserves, this is not responsible planning. So, replace the flooring or add more features, but let us not get into debt.

I also am unsure of what happens to the staff and the residents having a place to eat for the dues that we pay..over a 7 month remodel timeframe.

Disagree with the need of such an expensive remodel and totally disagree with long term debt.
The cost of the proposed remodel is extravagant and unnecessary.
The cost is excessive.  The club house is just fine and not a real estate issue.  Having most of the pool for “lap swimmers” is an issue.
That level of renovation is unnecessary given the utilization of the clubhouse and the continuous loss on the restaurant.
too much debt and I would like our club house to be for private or members only; no public availability should be permitted without a member.  Our club house is beautiful as it is:  my vote is NO to the renovation of the Country Club
A financial move this large should be voted on by the ENTIRE community!
Liability. Excessive solution to a minor problem
The cost to renovate the country club with a golf membership of less than 300 is outrageous!! Even though social members utilize the club restaurant, the quality of the food is “below par”. We also live on the golf course and never see a lot of traffic. There is something wrong with this picture. The clubhouse renovation needs to be reexamined.
I’m concerned about the cost that may be passed on to members/residents. We already pay a substantial monthly fee.
We are not against modernizing the club house but not to the extent as planned.
We want to see Terravita debt-free.
Too expensive ! Who did decide this ? The community was not consulted !
We don’t need this expensive facility.
Size of debt, scale and scope of renovation inappropriate based on our communities size and needs. Special events can utilizeDP
I am on a fixed retirement and additional costs for Terravita hurts me
Incurring such long-term debt for meaningless improvements is fiscally  irresponsible
The entire community should vote on taking on this amount of debt instead of having the Board decide for us. I agree the Club needs a facelift, but the proposed amount is way too much.
Bad Idea!  Crazy, Makes no Sense at all…  How can a board make this decision without a community a vote…
Homeowners are strongly opposed to use of debt
for any improvements.  The improvement plan is excessive and unnecessary.
Loan agreed to without my consent. Something of this magnitude needs to be agreed to by homeowner majority.


There is a growing list of exceedingly poor if not illegal management of this community.  This board should look carefully at this ready list of witnesses for the prosecution.  Stop this crazy financial mismanagement.  I’m just sick and tired of the high drama here – may be time to move
TCC wastes our money. It was the same with the solar hot water installation project near the pool. Construction and at least  demolition. Nobody was responsible for that waste of millions $.
We the members have to decide and not the board.
Stop the this waste of money. The members have to vote on it
I have been frustrated/annoyed by the cost overruns of previous prijects and by the Board not taking into full account the wishes of the community
Long term debt is totally unnecessary and will be a burden on residents for years to come.
I too feelthat this is fiscally irresponsible like the community center. There is no reason to spend that amount of money. I strongly oppose.
Does not make sense and will not affect sales.  Do a renovation but not on that scale
As a social member the club house could use some updating ,but a total remodel is out of the question
No bebt.  This is a golf issue, not most of the members.  Why did this come up in the summer when so many people are gone? Board is out of touch.
Board is out of control with spending. This kind of expense should require a vote of ALL homeowners. As a retired real estate agent, taking on this debt will likely hurt home sales. The only homeowners I have heard support this are golf club members. What percentage of homeowners does that represent?
Overall Cost
Such a HUGE debt will prevent us from doing any other needed renovations in the future.
I’m against such a large loan. Members should have a vote.
pretentious design at a ridiculous expense without regard for the NEEDS of the target market.
I’m a home owner with a desire to keep spending low.
I think it is too much money for a design I doubt is wanted.
Too much money, poor record of having large overruns, will have to disclose debt
Too much money
1. Too costly
2. Should revise project for 2 separate phases.
Smaller scope of the renovation. Less debt.More peace of mind for all.
The current clubhouse model attracts those of another generation gone by not the current or future generations.
I feel that the large expense we are incurring  for the restaurant is way over the top.
The entire community needs to vote on such a large commitment.
Do we really need a sports bar instead of a club house?  No objection to updating WITHIN OUR BUDGET but not to go into debt long after most of us are dead.  In addition, I would not buy into Terravita if I saw that kind of debt hanging over my head.  Please reconsider present plan and hope it doesn’t look as sterile as the pavilion when completed.
Huge unnecessary burden on the ownership
My husband Bill is a builder and developer. I am an architectural designer. In all of our years and experience in the building industry, we have NEVER had this type of cost over runs. We cannot support borrowing that much money if the projects are not being managed properly and professionally. We will not allow someone to encumber us without understanding what is really being done!!
Don’t like long term debt
Board has acted against broader community expressed interest by using a one day notification to approve a 20 year debt, refused to establish a budget upfront, refused to have design options vs one, and has refused to listen to any feedback that did not support this more than required Club remodel. We need a Club update that serves all 1380, reduces the already +$300 per year  each we already pay to subsidize the Club and keeps TCC financially strong. The Club needs to represent Terravita well but it is not a top 5 primary factor for prospective buyers to purchase. An over the top debt funded over sized facility will be a significant deterrent to our home values and competitive disadvantage for all. A well done, well maintained properly sized and within financial community values will continue to keep Terravita strong. A new option is in order ASAP.
Too much debt!
Far too expensive and very much against the long term debt
Running a community as if it were a personal home renovation is not realistic, nor good for homes/home sales.
The community should have been asked!
If an analysis was done indicating that an investment of this magnitude would increase property values then it should be presented for all to see. If not, I would find it difficult to support.
The expense of the remodel and the amount of proposed debt is excessive to say the least. The entire community should have a vote for any changes and expenses. I do not want to see the HOA fees increase anymore. Though I do feel there is a need for some updating, it needs to be done within reason. I must also restate as we have all read in the previous community survey, that it is the quality and cost of the food that needs improvement, which will help increase revenues for the club.
I like it the way it is and do not want HOA to increase anymore.
Waste of money!!!
I am not comfortable with the level of debt burden required for this project, and we do not have a good track record for projects of this scope. The Pavillion remodel was budgeted for $920k in 2015, and came in at $1.3M after insurance paid $750k. This is a 40% project overrun!   Financial insolvency will prove a bigger detractor to future home sales than whether the clubhouse has had a $5m remodel..
I have lived in private communities most of my Life In order to survive with that degree of debt in  comparison to the value of the homes .      Decreases the value of the private community in every  aspect .
We recently purchased a home here and probably would not have if we’d known future debt obligations would be in our future.
We need more answers and we don’t want that much debt especially since projects always go over budget
For so many reasons, I am opposed to this secret deal of spending my money without my knowledge or approval!
cost cutting should be the goal
Concern for property values and financially correct decision
I lose my compensation in 4 years and foolish expenditures are out of the park for me.  Who are the board thinking of?  The elite few?  Wasn’t the Pavilion enough money spent for very little benefit?
I would like to see the Clubhouse updated, but at much less cost.
The board, that just experienced significant over runs, needs to justify such an expenditure and give assurances of not repeating. Add 43% overrun on 5 million not acceptable. Updates needed but not at the expense of that much debt. They need to do their jobs and be fiscally responsible.
This renovation is over the top! Enlarge the kitchen,improve the decor and the menu. Maybe more members would spend time there. A clubhouse is not going to increase the value of our houses, allowing homeowners to customize their homes and individualize them will do more to increase property values. It amazes me that placing stack stone and replacing lights on the outside of the homes were turned down but a 5 million debt for a clubhouse that is barely used half the year is ok, something wrong with this picture!
Renovation of that scale is not necessary. Could use some updating.
This is just ridiculous!  Who do they think they are calling a meeting to approve this with one days notice, when this place just emptied out for the summer!  That, I would call the board a bunch of cowards. for not giving  the community a chance to vote!  I would  think it would be 80% -20% NO! A bunch of old men, X- CEO’s…  Thinking they own this place!  Please make the next Country Club meeting!  We need another petition to demand a RE-CALL of THIS BOARD!
The lack of common sense as to the ultimate effect on property values for a restraunt that in our 17 years has provided medicore food.
Tired of people pissing money away on things that interest them.
We should get a vote. I think it will affect future sales and the debt is too high. It was not right to have this issue come up when winter people have left. There are twelve houses on my court and only two of us go to the club occasionally. Improve what you have.
1. $5.65 million projected budget for the Clubhouse remodel is unreasonable
2. Long term financing of a remodeling project is irresponsible
3. The real problem with low membership dining at the club has not been addressed- quality of food/menu
4. The presentation/schedule of the clubhouse remodel appears to have been planned to steamroll over the membership.
The present Board is fiscally irresponsible! They totally ignore their fiduciary obligations. They should NEVER incur debt without the approval of 80% of the households in Terravita. If I did not know better, I’d say the Board members were ex-U.S Congressmen!
The long-term debt will prohibit home purchasing in the future and the extent of the remodel is excessive.
Sounds like most home owners have not even seen the plans. How much value would be generated in this $5.6 million investment? Could be too much debt for too little return in value…..
Too expensive and does not reflect needs of entire community.  Should hold meeting best when snowbirds are here or way to include their opinions and the opinions of all of us.
Too often of late,  the TCC Board acts like our new President, announcing decisions without sufficient examination and bypassing the opinions of those most affected. The expensive and extensive renovation, like “the Wall” will never turn out as discussed and the real costs in dollars and in benefits will greatly exceed the rosy predictions.
Why did the community not get to vote on this project?  This is way to expensive a renovation. I do not support the large dept
We do not want any DEBT. It is much easier to buy or to sell a home in an association with NO DEBT.
Unnecessarily extravagent!
A discretionary expenditure of this magnitude should require a consensus by the Terravita homeowners, not a unilateral decision by the Board.
It is irresponsible for an HOA to incur debt. If renovation is necessary then it should be done through previously saved capital funds or special assessments.  Debt is never good for any HOA.  Please rethink this proposal and bring it to a vote of the members.
I’m not convinced that the community is on board to take on this debt – especially with the history of cost overruns on other projects.  Was input from local realtors ever considered?  Would love to hear their thoughts regarding taking a debt.
How much did we spend on interior updates a few years ago – and is anything able to be re-used?  We were told at a recent meeting that when clubhouses are renovated, business increases.     How can we be being guaranteed that will happen at Terravita?  Better menu?  Better entertainment?  More relaxed atmosphere?  Feels like we are building on the premise of “Build it and they will come”.  We didn’t buy in Terravita because of clubhouse and rarely use it.  We bought because of the natural surroundings.
I agree with the need to reconsider the size, scope and cost of clubhouse renovations.  TCC track record in making and managing investments is not good.  The 20 year time frame and probability of cost overruns are inappropriate for a private club of our size.  Some updating is needed for sure, but should be much more modest and appropriate for the membership.  Even a more modest proposal MUST have majority membership approval.  Many of us have also updated/renovated our homes, but not to the extent of tear-down and rebuild as suggested for TCC.
Totally unnecessary
We agree with many of the comments expressed; over the top, need alternative; too expensive; put to a community vote.
I don’t want the board to take on any debt without member approval.
I am concerned about the long term cost and the impact on the community and me as a homeowner. I believe the community has a right to voice their opinions and vote on what will be done.  It is not the right of a select few to make this decision.
Deep and long term debt in this community is not a good idea, as maintenance issues, as the community ages are more important . Save first and then spend or choose more modest improvement projects that are used by all and paid for first not on leverage . We should Behave like this is a ‘household” or a government , debts can hang on like a night,are!
We do not want any  debt
It is irresponsible to spend this large sum of money on facilities that will most likely continue to be underutilized.
We need a community vote on this matter…  I think this board should be recalled…  They are not looking out for the community, just their own self interest!  Our management has a great track record, remember the solar panels a quarter of a million dollar loss…  They love to spend OTHER PEOPLES MONEY!
We are happy with the club as it is and feel the present plan needs to be reevaluated.
I would hate to be associated with the Board that threw the entire community into debt without asking the community.  Apparently under the existing bylaws they do not HAVE to ask for a vote. But common decency would have told most to have a vote before taking a loan that committed 1,380 homes to a 20 year debt!  Time to change the bylaws!  This is also the Board that took a very friendly community and decided to charge our friends $6 to play cards.  Something that is deemed unfriendly by most.  Please attend the meeting…if they call one!
The long term debt could make it harder to sell our homes in Terravita.   I am opposed to having the board make a decision without hearing from the homeowners.
5m is more than what is necessary
Bylaws dictate members approve any decision “to expand, make additions to, renovate or repair the Country Club Facilities” and this has not been done.
I don’t feel the property valuations will increase enough to justify the sizable expense.
Do not want to see that much long term debt
Do not want to take on long term debt
The proposed renovation at $8 million  is  too expensive   just for  poor food.   A more reasonable  re-do at around $2 mill would be  well in the ball park.
Significant cosmetic changes can be made to the clubhouse without significant changes to the floor plan for significantly less cost. It would make it look brand new!
I believe a 20 year loan with prepayment penalties is very bad for the community.  The projected source of funds for repayment is doubtful.  The entire project is too expensive.
Don’t see the need!
This amount of debt could have a major negative impact on home values. Agree with many previous comments. This is a community, not a board.
This is not fair to spend this amount of money without getting consensus from the community.
Because if I ever sell my home and the club is in debt it may cause a realestate deal to fail !
I also want don are the dining room to remain for dining not just drinking and casual dining !
As newer owners we were impressed with the clubhouse. We understand the need for updating but find the new design cold and too trendy.
Enough is more raises
TOO EXPENSIVE!!!  Ever hear the phrase “If you can’t afford it, don’t buy it”?  If it were my personal expense, I’d set aside a fund for “Future Improvements,” and not schedule the improvements until I had some or most of the cost set aside.  And pre=payment conditions????  What are they??? I’d never take out a loan that.   way!!!  What Financial Wizards agreed to that?  Seems like a lot of interest will be paid on that size loan.  What is the actual cost over time?  Is there a cap on contingencies and overruns?  How long will the construction take?  At what inconvenience to users? What income will be used to pay this loan?   Many other questions …..
I think this is wasteful and extravagant
We only live here part of the year and the fees are high enough and amenities are nice enough as is
I do not want the community to incur this long term debt.  The club needs to have better food and service
I believe the idea of securing a loan for a capital improvement, although apparently within the TCC bylaws/regulations was strictly a way to bypass a vote of the community required for any assessment utilized for capital improvements. Should any financial projects fall short and a assessment is then required due in part or fully due to this loan, the Board can then pass an assessment without any vote of the majority of the households required.
Additionally, since the unit owners would be required to agree to any assessment increase if title to our assets are backing the loan, the community should be made fully aware of all provisions of the loan.
A much smaller project should be capable of providing a wonderful renovation.
Full disclosure of the debt being incurred by homeowners is essential along with a proper vote.
We do NOT need any additional expenses or upgrades to our Clubhouse.
Too much debt is not good for resale.
Don’t want that much debt
Do not want to incur debt or make it harder to sell.
Too expensive. There are other areas of the community needing upkeep. Do minor update to
This a concern for the resale of our homes.  When we purchased, we purchased knowing the community was in the green, and would not have bought otherwise.
A project of such size and expense should be submitted to the community for consent.
Too much debt for too long of a period. And I bet we’re on the road to more assessments and fees.
Very concerned!
I want our community to stay debt-free.
Updating the property and clubhouse is important to the value of the community; however, the size of this loan and amount of debt is overboard.
I agree that a Club House renovation is warranted – however I think the current plans are excessive and more work needs to be given
to lower costs.  Perhaps several options and then letting the community vote on the preferred plan and spending level
Secarcy is bothersome.I own house in Terravita we have right to known where is money is going.This IS BIG DEAL .
I am no longer a Board Director as I resigned to various factors which I felt were questionable and that my opinion did not matter to the rest of the Board members.    I also felt the Board was not acting in our best interest in awarding bonuses to Forbes for completion of the DP, implementing the new membership guest fees, and other aspects of his job responsibilities.  I was told to keep these bonuses confidential, by Board President, Janice who set Forbes bonuses up and failed to tell us until the end of the year.

Regarding the loan and Clubhouse Remodel, as a 2016-17 Board director I was under the understanding that in the early April TCC Board Meeting we were voting to lock in a rate of 4% on a possible loan. In addition, that loan could be as high as $5,000,000 but not necessarily.  At the time, I thought this was to secure a line of credit so that TCC could hire architects, contractors, and a design team.  At no time was I told that TCC would actually borrow this amount of money.  This early April meeting, the loan was not approved but to only lock in an interest rate.  I have since rescinded my vote as I was misled.

I did not vote nor participate in the approval of signing the loan documents as those decisions were made in late April (I was not present at these meetings.)  Nor did I approve or vote on any proposed design of the clubhouse as it does not address our members needs or desires.  I agree the Clubhouse does need a facelift, but not at the excessive costs or incurring this huge debt.  I am worried our value on our homes will drop by having a heavy debt load placed on its members for the next 20 years.

These past days I have expressed my concerns to Sterling, TCC Board President and asked repeatedly that the TCC Board step back and reevaluate their position in the excessive debt and remodel.  Sterling’s response to me was that he “doubts that the majority of members” agree with my opinion.      I do not support our members incurring the excessive debt nor the fancy remodel.  Please be at the meeting.  I have two homes in Terravita, which will be on the market shortly due to the abusive and inexcusable experience/treatment as a TCC Board Director.   Please be proactive!

Too much debt. Are structural improvements or more efficient service areas needed or just wanted?  The last renovations, in terms of aesthetics were just plain ugly!  I would certainly approve some cosmetic changes in terms of modest structural  changes, carpet and paint, but the plan as it is presented is too costly. We need to know exactly what  we will be paying for and have a say in the scope of the project. It seems as though we have just gone from one major project to another, some have been needed, but his one is too broad and unnecessary.  We do need to keep up appearances, but not at this cost.
As an owner I want to protect the assets and value of Terravita
To keep up with the Jones! just maje sure that the renovations do not exceed the ammenities expected by home owners in this calaber of houses.
The Clubhouse looks great to me!  Upkeep on the “activities – such as pool, tennis, golf and gym” are much more important.
Please, please, please act responsibly and not add more debt.  Set aside an amount from dues until the account can substantiate moving forward with more realistic improvements.  Do the membership’s business, not your views on what’s appropriate.
All members of the Terravita community should be voting on this, not  just a select few.  I, personally don’t enjoy going to a sports bar. There is too much noise.  I think our club is fine just the way it is.  If you want to give it a new look, use some paint, new furnishings, and a better menu.  Think how much money we could save for more important things that will need fixing.
As a real estate broker for over 35 years, I can tell you this excessive expenditure will only hurt property values in our community.  Potential buyers not only look at the price of the house but also the cost of living in the community–HOA fees, assessments, etc.  This proposed renovation is far too expensive and the same goal can be accomplished by such simple improvements as paint/carpet/lighting/tile.  And all for a few thousand dollars vs. millions.
Trying to attract new buyers with a fancy multi-million dollar clubhouse will be offset by the excessive cost of the new clubhouse, which will turn away prospective buyers. This is an established, mature development. We should not try to compete with new communities, but instead keep up our amenities at minimal cost and attract new buyers  with lower HOA fees. This is a nice development. Let’s not ruin its attraction by creating huge HOA fees and assessments for minimal returns.
Board should poll the homeowners and follow their input as to how OUR money should be spent. It IS OUR MONEY.
Do not want debt and renovation if dpne should be financed with cash flow
I don’t think it is a nicessity!!!
A project of this magnitude and expense should not be decided by 7 individuals.  It should require a community vote.  I seriously doubt that too many members would approve of it.
We do not need to spend 5 Million to update an already nice club house. The debt will hurt us long term. We are not the government we have to balance things as we go.
Such a large amount of money should not be spent without a vote of all residents and a majority approving.
As we have been hedging over whether to sell our property, this added expense will definitely be a deciding point.
Strongly oppose!!
We have no objection to a modest upgrade of the clubhouse.  However, a remodel on the scale the Board is proposing, which will result in an excessive level of debt over 20 years, is both unnecessary and unacceptable.
5 million in debt without the members’ vote is unconscionable
I’m currently in Ohio and cannot attend a meeting. This absolutely requires massive discussion. As a homeowner for 19 years I am concerned about property values and long term debt.
The country club is underutilized and a massive remodel will not dramatically increased usage.
We’re the present plan be submitted to the members, I for one would vote against such an expenditure.
I can not believe there is no cap on the amount of money our board can use of our dues.  What a terrible shock of how little we are valued as intelligent members in our own community. More than disappointed!
While I can easily see a renovation to our Country Club facilities, it is the magnitude of the amount or the renovation which is concerning and the fact it is going to be debt financed.  I could support a renovation but for probably less than half of the amount currently planned.
Give up on the dining room. I have been here over 20 years and dining area has never been used. We have remodeled it 5 times with the same results. Why not a sixth time with even a larger budget.
A affordable renovation
We will consider resale in the near future and are concerned about diminishing the value of our primary asset.
The clubhouse is under-utilized now and has been for some time-for us to upgrade to the extent that has been proposed seems to be in poor judgement. I am at a loss as to why resident surveys have not been used to understand our opinions. Shouldn’t a debt such as this be put to a resident vote?
Too much money, too little community interaction.  Upgrade the clubhouse, but keep it at or near the $1-2M range.
An update of the clubhouse decor is due and will add great value to the clubhouse. Major structural changes such ch as tearing out fireplaces will not enhance the space or our enjoyment of the club. My husband and I seriously object to the onerous debt now before us. To us, it devalues our property and enjoyment and makes TerraVita a less desirable location.
I don’t want to see a “fancy-dandy” new building and most importantly I don’t want to take on the huge debt the Board members feel have a right to approve.  The nerve of them.
I wholeheartedly support the renovation of our clubhouse but have serious concerns about return on investment regarding the overall scope and design as proposed.  I appreciate the opportunity for further comment from the members who will be paying for all of this.
A large expense like this should be voted on by the homeowners.
I saw the plans at a meeting.  Did not think it was remodel but a rebuild without removing outerwalls.  Too up-scale for my wallet.
I am concerned about how this is going to affect  budget.  I’m now a widow and must stay within my budget as well as concerned about  the resale values of our homes.
Truthfulness by our board, non secret meetings where binding decisions are made without consideration for membership input and consideration.  Are we in a democracy here or a dictatorship?
I don’t want to be burdened with debt
Too much debt for our community.  A decision to spend this amount of money should be decided by a vote of all residents of our community.  The board has an obligation to represent the entire community.
A renovation of this magnitude with this much future debt Should be approved by the residents not by the board.
Formally disclose the entire project, including all opportunities and risk factors. Disclose historical financial information on the restaurant operations, utilization and budget and actual financial performance to the last 3 years. Disclose feasibility study and comparisons to similar projects by other country clubs. Disclose the terms and conditions of the letter of intent from the lender(s). Disclose the strategies of managing the project to budget and the personnel and their past performance in overseeing similar projects. Disclose the implications, financial and real estate, upon the membership if the project is successful and unsuccessful. Disclose the safeguards  to protect all vested parties during the project lifetime. Disclose the logic of investing $5mm in a community worth $2.5mm in a golf industry and community that is struggling to sustain performance in this economy.
A renovation of this magnitude with this much future debt Should be approved by the residents not by the board. Impacts our home values for future sales.
Have seen this many times in project management… Architect goes overboard and no one manages them back to reasonable scope.
Opposed to  incurring such a large amount of debt for what I view as excessive remodeling  and a lack of adequate disclosure by the Board of the Directors.
Cost and no clear terms of repayment to residents. We as a community didn’t consent to this undertaking.
As a former bank director I believe this potential amount of debt is fiscally irresponsible, especially when you add a prepayment penalty. I’m not opposed to an upgrade but let’s reconsider the scale of the project please.
While the remodel is relevant, the costs are excessive and need to be scaled back to avoid resale issues.
The Board has a fiduciary responsibility to the Club.  Binding the club with this excessive loan without a vote by the members is shirking those responsibilities.  I do support a reburbishment of the clubhouse, not the remodel planned by the Board.  I cannot and do not support the $5Million loan signed by the Board members.
Without question, a project of this scope with this much future debt needs to be approved by the residents not by the board. This will have significant financial impact on all of us.
The BOD seems to be making unnecessary and expensive changes within the HOA.  Greater fiscal control is needed.
Looks like time to redo the bi-laws.  This commitment made by the board without a vote by ALL members has put our wonderful community in  long term debt and long term risk.
Homeowners should have a say in taking on this debt.
Based on the information provided we are not convinced that  the burden of a $5 million project is in the best interest of the community. In fact such a financial liability will diminish the value of home ownership at Terravita
Consider scope of details.  Reduce the cost.
The project scale and expense will likely result in cost increases for residents without adequate input from those that are paying the bills.  Needs to be scaled back, phased and loan should be very small or non-existent and should be fully vetted by a TVCA consulting attorney.
This is vital to the community and it’s future.
My home value is very important to me.  I plan to sell in the next five years and I want my home to have the highest market value possible.  I don’t want to scare off prospective buyers with outrageous HOA fees.
I don’t need another increase or I will
Have to sell
The financial health of a community is one of the first concerns a home buyer should have when thinking of purchasing a new home. Had Terravita $5 million in debt for a period exceeding 20 years when I decided to purchase my home I would not be living there now. Many members see the clubhouse needing an upgrade. Not a single guest I have invited to the Clubhouse has had anything but praise for the condition and style of the Clubhouse. My guests include realestate agents that have visited most or all of the clubhouses in the surrounding communities. I strongly agree with the petition member concern regarding the decision to upgrade the clubhouse through loan financing. Please reconsider this decision to give better accounting for future costs and benefits of this project. I am unable to attend the meeting on 26 June but if I could I would voice my concern for this project.
Regards, Ken Welker
As a homeowner it affects me greatly. Do we not have financially savvy people making decisions that affect the community?  As a financial professional for over 30 years, there are other options and work arounds for the loan. This is a disgrace, total lack of good judgement. The inmates are running the asylum it appears.  I would be happy to help
offering insight. I can be reached at :
It’s taking on too much long term debt!
We just bought into the Terravita community and I believe that this action on the part of the Board is an egregious misuse of power and authority.  This will negatively impact our property values as the terms of this loan are terrible and will only result in the dues increasing to a level that is completely out of step with other very nice communities in the area.  I have asked several questions regarding line items in the approved operating budget and this Board has not been able to provide adequate responses or support.  I have also challenged the timing of the various meetings associated with this proposal as they have all been at times when many of the members of the community are not even present.  The Board seems to be purposely trying to avoid the majority opinion.  The Board needs to be held accountable to all members of this community!
I am concerned about the adverse financial impacts of this loan, the process in which it has been conducted and consequences to the future of Terravita’s  individual homeowners whose investments are on the line.  The community is aging in terms of both the ages of the homes and the ages of the resident homeowners.  Late in life significant debt violates sound financial planning and places residents at a risk for which they have not been given a vote.

Do consider the consequences to Terravita’s reputation in the real estate market.  Realtors will be required to advise potential purchasers of this newly created, enormous debt and its decision making process which lacked community wide transparency or support.  As new purchasers in 2016, we were advised before signing a Purchase Agreement that we would be required to pay $3,000 for Capital Improvements upon closing.  We had to weigh this number along with the monthly and quarterly membership fees vs that of Winfield and Bellasera.  This TCC loan will undoubtedly price Terravita out of the market, and obliterate the Board’s annual home sales predictions upon which loan repayment is based.  The Board is placing individuals and the very community of Terravita at risk, possibly of bankruptcy.  And, for what purpose?

TCC’s Club House…is it really in as questionable condition as the Board makes it appear?  It certainly seems adequate size-wise. Does the interior decor honestly reflect signs of being “out of date”? The exterior view from the dinning and bar areas is breathtaking, while the furnishings are comparable or exceptional to other private club establishments.  If the roof needs fixing, fix it. If the carpet needs replacing, replace it. If the kitchen needs upgrading, consider upgrade it, but by reasonable measures.  To subject the entire community to $5 million dollars of debt to satisfy the whims of only a handful of residents, Board Members among them–whose justification is to merely spruce up the surroundings–is inconceivable.  This BOD attempt to put our community into debt will find many of us unable to live long enough to pay off this ridiculous expenditure. Moreover, value of properties will be affected by increased obligations to pay off debt incurred by this ridiculous BOD proposal.  Not everyone in this community has deep pockets. We were just wise enough to invest in a premiere location.  This proposal must be overthrown by pure and simple commonsensical measures. Don’t let the Board ramrod this matter through. Call for a community vote. I’m sorry I’m unable to attend the meeting, but I encourage anyone in attendance to present my, as well as others, concerns over this loan and exorbitant refurbishments to our club house .
Marcus Whetstone
Own 33905 No. 67 St. Scottsdale, AZ.
This is too much debt to carry for too long.  I’m not convinced that the upgrades have been prioritized and properly bid out to get the best value, including the amount and terms of any loan.
Ridiculous extravagance
When I was a member of the TCC finance committee, we were committed to not incur debt. That was the view of the majority of our owners. Funding of the capital improvement fund and reserve fund were to provide for upkeep and improvement of facilities. No data has been presented that such a major makeover and incurring $5 million dollars of debt to accomplish same will lead to greater use of the clubhouse. This debt is approximately $3,500 for every homeowner in Terravita, not including interest. This appears to add little benefit to our homeowners, and incurs major debt for all members. This project is ill conceived. If some board members wish to go ahead with this major renovation so they can say “look what we built”, that is a poor excuse. Live within our means. Remember the clubhouse is an amenity, works at a loss, thus revenue from same will not retire the debt and interest.
This is an expense we don’t need. The club house is beautiful the way it is.
We think this is a serious mistake, which will adversely affect the value of our home and our enjoyment of this wonderful, small community. Buyers will not want to take on the assessment required for this project–nor should they!  The Board must respect the community at large; this should have gone to a vote of the entire community…
The loan terms are completely riculous. Doesn’t take a business degree to know that. A club house in a community like this does not need to be that extravagant. These are mid-range priced homes for north Scottsdale. The dues are ridiculous enough. This will just continue to increase our dues to pay for this club house. In the future prospective buyers will turn away from buying in the community because of the dues. We aren’t a million dollar home community.
Far too much money for value to homeowners.  A renovation is merited to keep the club attractive and appealing but should be a much smaller project.  Less money and a shorter time period for construction.
$5,000,000 debt is way overboard.  The claim that will be no assessment needs to be put in writing, or it is useless.  Home values will be impacted.  Who wants to buy into a community with a huge debt.  The assessment cloud hangs overhead.  Bad decision made by a few board members.  Needs a total open vote by community.
This clubhouse is only 25 years old.  We do not support any renovations other than paint, tile, repairs or kitchen needs.  We don’t agree with the fact that information was concealed by the board regarding financial information for the project and bonuses paid to high level employees in secret.  Such a majorThis renovation should have involved ALL of the membership in suggestions, questions, and cost involved with no debt incurred.  Major debt should be approved by the ENTIRE community.
We cannot have this debt forced on us without our consent and this could definitely have a negative effect on home values.
I AM OPPOSED TO THIS EXTENSIVE CLUBHOUSE MAKEOVER.  IT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE COST EFFECTIVE, when compared to the effectiveness of the current clubhouse as configured.  This proposed project is way over the top because it does not significantly improve the usefulness of the current club house.  What we have is FINE.  Why go into DEBT for SOMETHING THAT WE DON’T NEED!
IT IS IRRESPONSIBLE TO IMPOSE THIS DEBT ON OUR COMMUNITY.  BAD DECISIONS made by a FEW BOARD MEMBERS!  Thank you Georgia for your integrity and speaking out on your observations of this irresponsible and secretive behavior on the board.
Desert Mountain has beautiful clubhouses, such as Chiricahua built in 1999 and Apache built 1997.  They both do great business, according to a friend employee, and they have never changed the integrity of the dining room or had a renovation.  Same tile etc. and they built it to last.  Everyone there is satisfied with it.  Why is the Terravita board attempting to put us into MAJOR DEBT without our approval, burden our community and devalue our homes.
Terravita does not need a” new” club house.  Use cash on hand for a few creative cost effective changes.
borrowing money is bad business for the borrower, Spend the money on hand for a few creative, cost-efficient changes  The Terravita Golf Course has sufficient “”ambiance”.  Artificial chair covers and drapes won’t help. Borrowers are looser’s when it come to paying interest  and cost overruns.   This project sounds like a bad deal.           Jean
This is an irresponsible and poorly planned expenditure.  The contact is not in Terrivita’s favor.   Homeowners will shoulder a huge and extended debt.
Vehemently  opposed to this; fiscally irresponsible and unecessary

Signing the Petition

Q:  Can we make copies?  A: Yes, make copies and distribute to friends and neighbors.

Q: Who can sign?  A: A legal homeowner or trustee of a family trust or officer if owned by an LLC.  Only one signature is needed to represent the household.

Q:  I signed a petition which was circulating a few months ago.  Do I need to sign this one?  A:  Yes.  This petition was prepared with the assistance of an attorney specializing in homeowners’ disputes.  The petitions need to be consistent and handled appropriately in order for us to be heard.

Q:  Is there a deadline?  A: The deadline is …. ASAP….   When enough have been collected to satisfy the law and send a message to this Board, they will be processed.  This petition was intentionally delayed until our out-of-town members started to return to Terravita in the recognition that every member deserves a say.  It could not be delayed any longer, so please sign and let’s get this ball rolling!

Here is the Petition

A letter and formal Petition to Remove / Recall 6 of 7 of the Terravita Country Club Board Directors has been mailed to many members, primarily those who had signed the on-line Petition in June.  Mail was sent to your mailing address on record with the Maricopa County Assessor if that was not the same as your Terravita street address.  If you did not receive one, please download a copy or duplicate one from a friend.  Share them.  Every vote is important.  Mail your signed Petition to:

PO BOX 28771

Terravita Petition Letter

Terravita Petition